September 30, 2019: Apple’s new and improved flagship, sustainability trends, and holiday season shopping projections
No time for news? We’ve got you covered. Welcome to the Retail Rundown, your go-to weekly podcast where RETHINK Retail teams up with industry experts to deliver the top trending news stories in retail.
Our guests today include Tony D’Onofrio and John Boline. Tony is a RETHINK Retail Advisor and CEO of TD Insights. Tony is also a respected industry futurist and recognized as a global top 100 retail influencer. John is the Vice President of Store Design at Starbucks, where he has first-handedly ushered in more than a decade’s worth of experiential changes within Starbucks’ stores, including the development of its premium Reserve brand cafés.
Tony, John, thank you for joining us today.
Pleasure to be here.
Thank you very much.
So after two years of anticipation, Apple has reopened its famous New York city flagship. And known by tourists and NYC natives like myself, and brand loyalists as simply the cube. The bigger, brighter, and busier Fifth Avenue flagship is nearly twice as large and can support up to 900 employees.
And the redesigned store is now home to 28 live trees as well as, a massive wall-to-wall Genius Bar, and a sizeable assembly hall where Apple plans to host daily, Today at Apple learning sessions, which they obviously do at some of their other locations. Apple’s futuristic and flashy remodel is just one of scores of other retailers that have built or reenvisioned their flagships in recent years.
So the first question is, John, what do you think of Apple’s new store design and, is having an iconic flagship, a must have for established brands in today’s business world?
It’s a great question. I’ve been to the store many times but haven’t had the opportunity to see the remodel or experience it quite yet. But reading the download and taking a look at what’s been done, it’s quite an amazing statement for the Apple brand to reinvent itself. But really a ground zero flagship for them bringing the outside in and really making commitments to lifestyle for their customers in a place to gather.
And as a must have in the flagship world, I really believe that creating lifestyle centers for brands is a place to gather really becomes a must have as the life cycle of that brand has been introduced. And now Apple reintroducing that or reintroducing it again, really doubles down on the commitment they have to create an environment with their product and service in a way that’s completely unique to their product and gets people excited about their brand, whether or not they’re even purchasing that day.
And I think in the life cycle of that brand and that reinvention, it’s super important to continually improve on that and really hone in on lifestyle changes as the world around us goes more to eCommerce and delivery. I think more and more we need these places to gather, to really go after our commitment beyond just products, but really to lifestyle and to start to deal with the social things like, human loneliness, which is common even in cities like, New York.
So I tip my hat to the efforts that Apple’s made there to double down, and I’m super excited to get out to New York in a few weeks and experience it myself.
Yeah, and it’s also very exciting when companies like this are investing in the public spaces and the shared spaces in cities?
I’m a big fan of flagships and, full disclosure, I’m also a fan of Starbucks Roasters, which I consider the flagship of Starbucks and I’m an, aficionado which I drink way too many. But I do think flagships will continue to evolve and go forward based on, they are a critical component of brands.
Today, they increasingly and need to be influenced by digital, and a good example of a brand that’s done an extremely good job is, Nike with their heist of innovation, which they’ve opened in Shanghai and New York and recently in Paris. And if you walked into that store, you see that it’s a, each floor is a differentiated level of experience.
Each floor is a different way for a consumer to engage with the brand all focused around the Nike app. Some of the floors are actually curated to the local market. Like, for example, the basement in New York is, products that are likely, bought in New York. And then, there’s different levels of engagement all the way up to the fifth floor.
So to me, really flagships are, an important and increasing component that retailers need to focus on. And digital is where the influence needs to be placed, to create experiences that consumers become brand ambassadors and become passionate about the brand, exactly, now we’re talking about Apple in New York.
If I could just add onto that, I think what’s really interesting, what’s happening, if you take a look at our top tier cities in the States right now, and some of this is happening globally where, vacancies are an all time high. You can take a look even on Google Maps. There’s whole districts in New York showing vacancies throughout districts.
And so these flagships are a commitment to bring our customers back, see the brand and experience it in a new way. But hopefully what that yields is, the entire flywheel of all of the other outlets, whether they’re in a second or third tier city or whether it’s an eCommerce channel, all of that needs to work together.
And so the hope is that, these flagships such as the Apple one take it down into a Memphis, or a Denver. And so that experience that happens in New York where it’s sort of the top of brand strategy, I’d be curious to see how Apple pushes this out and really lets rubber hit the road, whether it’s a customer that has no store nearby or maybe even a tier two or three city and thinking about bringing those experiences out.
That certainly the halo or ripple effect comes from that flagship.
With the statement, if you look at Nike again. There’s one floor where you can customize a shoe, a Nike shoe, that you will be the only one in the world that will wear because you will customize it exactly to what you like. And that type of a customer experience will be forever be tweeted and on social media and so on.
And that’s really what, builds brand value over time.
Yeah, it’s interesting you bring up the Nike and you’re the only one that wears it. If you look at Apple’s hardware, it’s relatively ubiquitous, but once you started to customize and do it, every one of our iPhones is a snowflake. So in some ways what you’re creating is a similar experience in a user driven or customer driven experience that can be shared out but unique to them, it’s exciting.
So I have an Apple specific, add on question for both of you that is more of a problem in flagships for Apple than it might be for a Nike or a Starbucks or than it would be. When it comes to the Genius Bar and 900 employees, can you guys talk about the logistics around, solving customer pain points in such a large flagship, when the Genius Bar is one of the most important logistics solves that Apple has to deal with around the world?
John and I can, from my point of view, what I’ve seen already in Apple is that, they use digital devices to facilitate the engagement with the Genius Bar. I do think that needs to be continuously improved because even my local Apple store, it sometimes takes a while to actually get the assistance that I’m looking for.
And what I’ve appreciated in the New York experience that they’ve done is that, they are refocusing back into their store because I do think the experiences have declined over time. And so I do like that, for example, Apple was one of the first to actually use, mobile devices for point of sale.
So you, on an iPhone, you actually check this off, you didn’t have to go to point of sale and so on. So digital devices to actually allow, those 900 people to actually mix with the people in the store are going to become even more important going forward.
Yeah, I would like to take a look at the back of house and see what The Wizard of Oz does behind the scenes. I know there’s a lot being handled digitally, but with 900 employees on staff running the Genius Bar. I think it’s almost like, the set of a musical or a play where you’re orchestrating different roles.
So the person that greets me, is different than the person at the Genius Bar that handles my order. And may maybe different than the person that runs by products out and scans my credit card. And so, the hospitality industry has become quite good at this and understanding my needs state. And differentiating that level of service or customizing it to who I am and meeting my needs at the moment.
And so each stage of me checking into a hotel, if it’s a boutique hotel that is in tune with my needs, I think Apple orchestrates this really well. And then, to double down and put the Genius Bar facing the customer and to say that, this is the heart of our brand and that we care about the devices you currently own, and computers that we can fix them on [inaudible 00:10:05] and orchestrating that with that many people available to help you.
Whether I’m on vacation or a New York native, I know that I can go there and be taken care of in a relatively seamless way while also experiencing the feature of a product in an extremely exciting environment that Norman Foster doubled in size.
And John, can you talk a bit about providing spaces for consumers at Starbucks for consumers to interact with your brand in a repeat way or, in a sustained way over a certain amount of hours and perhaps become repeat customers in a two, three hour window? Can you talk about your, at your company, how thinking evolved around that?
Well, it’s continually evolving. The consumer is changing faster than any of us that are working in any of these brands, so we need to stay very in tune with that. We also have customers that are very, old school that want the same thing, the same way, every day. And I would assume a lot of people listening to this podcast, and a lot of us on the call here experience Starbucks, quite a few days either on the road or in our home city.
And we experience that in different ways, in the airport, we get a take away, we experience roasteries where we can have a coffee and do a cocktail and sit here for two, three hours. And so all of those things are happening at any moment, anytime in our store. So it requires us to create environments that are specific and not always all things to all people.
So it creates a sort of tiered approach to how we understand the consumer need. And that we don’t tip the scale all to convenience or all for sit and stay, that we actually need to do both and get clearer channels to meet people’s lifestyle and to meet them where they’re at because, that’s what’s going to give us a positive impression and get to come back.
And if we never have the locations where, brick and mortar, and that environment where people can experience our product and service at its best, the rest of delivery or take away actually doesn’t work anymore. So we’ve got to double down on that connection, when people do have a moment.
And connections not always, a full conversation. You may be on a conference call, on your grab and go moment in New York. All you want to do is be acknowledged and feel good about, that your order’s going to be, and that you can get on to your meeting in the mornings. So it requires training of our staff in that space.
So the spaces have to be built in a way that we can handle all of those channels at one time. But our training has to really be able to orchestrate and be situational in the moment, to understand what your needs are at that time, to create a positive impression so that you will come back in the evening to our roastery and spend time when you do have it.
That’s fascinating, and Tony, do you have anything to add there?
Yeah, actually I applaud Starbucks for what they did with the challenges, when they had the grab-and-go challenges in terms of responding, because I do think exactly what John said, the consumers will continuously change and evolve in terms of their needs, and the brands that actually respond by crafting experiences and changing and adjusting, it’s not creating a brand and this is it, we’re forever the same.
It’s really continuously adjusting and listening. And in my view, it’s actually getting easier with social media and all the digital tools that are out there. So listening to the right channels and figuring out, how to optimize and creating those immersive experiences are critical going forward.
Great, so I think we’re going to switch now to a different topic, which is our holiday shopping rundown, sort of a second segment. So OpenX recently released its annual holiday report last week and it cites good news for digital and omnichannel retailers. One third of consumers and 50% of millennials say that, “They plan to spend more on holiday gifts than they did last year.”
And the study claims that, “The bulk of this year sales increase is projected to come from digital channels.” I’m going to do that one line again. The study claims that the bulk of this year sales increase is projected to come from digital channels. And the study also found that more than half of all holiday shopping will be done Online and one in five holiday shopping dollars will be spent on a mobile device.
So Tony, we’ll start with you. What is your take on these recent findings and do you think we’ll see digital channels tip the scale this holiday season or will it be business as usual for the brick and mortar?
That’s a good question. In my point of view, the days of doing business as usual for brick and mortar stores are over and they’ve been over for a while. Today, it’s all about creating frictionless experiences across channels, and that will be true this holiday season and for all the holiday seasons going forward.
A recent study that I saw, basically said that, today versus five years ago, 54% less people shop in malls, 31% shop less in a store, but 73% exactly what you said, are shopping online and 61% are shopping on smartphones. What that means is that, stores are not going to go away, but they need to change and adapt to this new consumer that is coming into the store.
And this holiday season will be a perfect example of that. I think the winners this holiday season are the ones that have invested in creating these frictionless, shopping experiences across all their channels. So no matter where you’re buying or returning, it’s as easy as possible and the store is really a location that reinforces and allows me to engage with the brand.
Some segments will have larger challenges. Apparels, one of them because 60% of the goods that are bought online and returned. But to me again, things need to change in terms of, how you actually engaged. And the brick and mortar store is going to continue to be a key part of the mix, but it needs to engage with that consumer differently going forward.
I do think that brick and mortar has a very important role in getting people to experience products and services. Just as we talked about the Apple store, certainly working with Starbucks for a number of years. We rely on football and people getting off the couch.
But we are very in tune with the fact that, so many more of the transactions are happening from a couch, whether it’s delivery or pickup, and we’re making enhancements in that. I think brands like, Nordstrom has done some interesting things with taking the department store model, not only in that sort of flagship where they’re doing shop and shop, but also looking at Nordstrom local, and actually having consumers come in on an appointment base.
They can try a number of things, they can have suggested items, they don’t have to take anything home with them at that time, if they’re on transit or on the go, it will be shipped to the house. So it’s sort of that blend of eCommerce and experience, touch and feel, and getting them more visceral experience of a brand without having the overwhelming, parking downtown in the city center and then having to an afternoon doing it.
So I think that was great, I think, Story has pushed things with Rachel Shechtman and her group and how they looked at, “Can retail evolve every four to eight weeks and be a completely different experience that keeps people coming back?” Macy’s is super keen on where they can take that and that remains to be seen.
But I think there’s a lot of these things that we’ve learned from and saying, “What can we really do to double down on that experience when people do come in, so that the eCommerce sites can light up with them with a more connected consumer that knows our products better?” And I think we’ll see that play out this year at Christmas.
I believe that scales could definitely tip to eCommerce this year.
And John, that sounded really interesting. Can you talk a little bit more specifically about, retail reinvention in eight week cycles?
Yeah, so the consumer no longer wants to come to the same place all of the time anymore, we don’t believe. But, a lot of times at different facets of our lifestyle, we want the same experience, or we want the same outcome in quality of product and time that it takes to get that product.
And so we’ve been trying with this idea of what friction is and what frictionless is. And there’s been some interesting studies coming out recently about where, in which facet of our lifestyle we want frictionless. And then, what’s our role in a brand? Because, it’s a brand when we have brick and mortar.
There’s a certain amount of friction that’s expected of the consumer that they expect also when they come in. So just by virtue of not hitting a button for DoorDash or Uber Eats, and then deciding whether it’s a mobile takeaway, or it’s a full cafe experience in our case, or full retail experiences, we’re talking about.
I think there’s some friction that our customers want to actually have in experiencing our brand. Whether it’s trying something on, whether it’s tasting a product for the first time, whether it’s surprise and delight in that four to eight week cycle of seeing something new and inventive.
And in working with our grocery partners where we’ve been teaming up for a long time with Safeway, Albertsons, Ralphs, a number of grocery chains. We’re actually, when we’re looking at new concepts for food and beverage and meeting seafood people even come and talk to us. And what’s happening as a result of eCommerce with seafood and meat consumption is, the deli is selling fewer skews now than ever before because people are no longer going to the grocery store.
So they’re trying to figure out how to widen people’s horizons on the eCommerce because there’s no more surprise and delight with people checking out their products. So I think we’ve got to find a way to create friction in environments where people are expecting it. And we need to ease it at facets of lifestyle or times when people don’t want it.
And I think that’s the dichotomy moving forward for successful brands, it’s really finding the mix between both of those. And it’s a healthy tension, but it’s one that, Apple’s figuring out in the flagship we spoke about. But certainly, Macy’s is trying to figure out with Story and Nordstrom’s trying to figure out with the omnichannel and multi-format.
And the good news to what John just said is that, consumers are increasingly, engaging digitally. That should tell you what the preferences are. You just have to listen more and adjust quicker. That pace of change is actually accelerating and consumers are really broadcasting what they prefer, including what they would like to receive or not receive while they’re actually inside the actual physical brick and mortar store.
Great, and in terms of Starbucks, I’m sure this is deeply tied to foot traffic, but in my opinion I’ve seen more and more skews being sold in stores. Is that true?
We’ve had a lot more promotional cycles, and we’ve had a tremendous platform with the Nitro and cold brew beverages going nationwide. So yes, we have added more beverages and more shifts seasonally, and that adds operational complexity. So we are looking at the sweet spot in that, not being all things to all people, at every location.
So, where do you want that friction again, and tying to the facet of your lifestyle. Flagship strategy always offers slightly different products and services as well. So, what is that on the top of the halo, what is that in the cafe and what is that in a takeaway model? We’ve got a right size, to be able to operate and meet people where they’re at in each one of those.
So we’ll have to do some SKU rationalization to really understand that and hit that sweet spot.
Got you, because, I’ve seen some new French presses and I was at a Starbucks internationally three months ago, and I saw some new thermos products that I had never seen in the States before, so it’s very interesting.
Yeah, and then the roastery has a whole different line and our reserve bars have a whole different line of brewing equipment, mugs and such that are, our premium black label.
Can you both speak to, new age logistical challenges… New age logistical challenges with regard to product?
I could speak to Starbucks, and with the scale we have, we don’t have tremendous amounts of logistical challenges, getting cups in hands, or getting our coffees out to our stores and being able to produce the beverages. Now anytime we go international, and I spent a number of years leading the China organization with Starbucks. And as we go into further out second, third and fourth tier cities, yes, we do have a logistical problem with, critical mass.
So if we only have one or two locations in a remote West China area, it’s more expensive and more difficult with more lead times to get ingredients and things out to our customers. But by no means something that we can’t overcome and work through. And within the US with a network of 9,000 company owned stores and 9,000 licensed stores, we’ve got a pretty good handle on how to manage those with daily delivery, our remote with two to three times a week delivery.
So we’ve made optimizations for things like, cold brew. We’re innovating on how we can get that done more efficiently in brewing in every store. So the cold brew is always made in every store fresh, it’s a 12 hour brewing process. So it’s overnight where we’ve made strides on how we do that, how we fill kegs with Nitro, and how we can get that to more consumers, so you don’t see a, sold out sign, as much as you might’ve done a year ago.
And just to add to what John said, I’ve seen this across retail. Really the good retailers have optimized their supply chain and have been spending a lot of time leveraging all that scanning or skew data to actually understand what products need to be where. And that’s actually, what to me was the second mega trend of retail in terms of, the evolution of the industry.
So the good retailers have actually, have aggressive supply chain that meet the needs of the consumer that’s not as a problem. What they’re all adjusting to right now, is the third mega trend which is, how the consumer now charge to their smartphone and other devices. And how do you engage that consumer differently because they’re not telling you more often exactly what they want, and that may lead to further adjustments that they need to make going forward.
Thank you guys so much for that. And that is a great segue into our sustainability rundown since we’ve just been talking about supply chain considerations.
So as climate change continues to dominate the news cycle, IKEA is parent company INGKA Group announced that the company has met it’s sustainability goal of producing as much renewable energy as it consumes. And INGKA Group told Reuters that, “It has invested nearly $3 billion in wind farms and rooftop solar panels over the past decade, and has recently acquired a 49% stake in two US solar parks.”
IKEA joins big name retailers like, Apple, Amazon, Target and Walmart, which have all invested considerable sums into renewable energy. Other retailers are making an impact through their products and packaging.
Discount grocer, Aldi announced earlier this year that it would be converting 100% of its packaging to reusable, recyclable or compostable materials by 2025, while Starbucks famously nixed the drinking straw in tens of thousands of stores around the world. So guys with reports, indicating that a majority of consumers believe corporations should help improve the environment.
Do you view this as a turning point for retailers and what can we expect from top brands in the years to come?
I can start this one, this is John with Starbucks. We’ve been working on this journey of sustainability, really the entire time that this brand has been a part of everyone’s life over the last 45, 50 years. And as we look at hitting our 50th birthday in a couple of years here, we’re really looking at the legacy that we can bring as a retailer and food and beverage company and that legacy of how we leave the planet a better place than we came to it.
And we’ve made strides, we’re also 100% renewable energy in the U S and all our company owned stores through partnerships such as Cypress Creek, solar farms, where we’re setting our youth and we’re trying to do that even more regionally. So solar and wind credits are great, but there is line loss in things if they’re not fairly regional.
And those are all well and good and that’s 100% the great goal, but is it enough? And so, we’re just getting started on this journey of taking it further and really looking at, “How can we make that more consumer facing?” So in California, I’m working on a store right now with my team, where we’re putting direct solar in that can produce about, 25 to 30% of the total energy of that store.
And we’re looking at some fun ways to bring that more into the consumer’s mind that we’re actually committing to this in a visceral way that they can see in their day to day Starbucks. Things like, straws, yes, we didn’t get rid of it and put 50 cups, that’s a great stride forward.
But what’s next? So jurisdictions are also looking at this, they’re pushing us certainly in San Francisco, LA, Seattle, New York. We’re looking at how we can reduce waste in packaging and consumables. And how does the consumer brand that hit so much on convenience, come to greener solution.
And we’re working on a number of things, whether it’s compostable or reusable cups that will become the future of how people use and experience this brand and feel better about their day. But it’s a big challenge ahead, we expect as we use our scale for good, that other brands also do the same.
And we’re willing to sit down at the table and work together towards that and collaborate so that it’s not just one brand, one approach, but how can we really make this into a movement that I believe will be the price of admission if it’s not already. And I think we’re past that turning point where young consumers and certainly all of the marches worldwide on, global warming illustrated that over the past week.
And I think we need to be even more in front of that, than we already are. And make sure that we’re leading in that category and that our consumers feel that in their heart as they choose to spend time and money with us, and that we’re bigger than just the consumable that they have in our stores.
And I would reinforce what John just said. I’ve been tracking, many of the world’s successful brands and retailers and I’m seeing that the sustainability is a key message that they drive in all their strategies. Walmart for example, as I already said, that they’re going to be 50% renewable energy by 2020.
They’re putting a major focus on exactly what we just talked about. I’m also looking at brands like, Inditex, which has Zara fast fashion, which they create a lot of clothes. They’re also getting a lot more aggressive, in July this year, they announced that they will, all their products will be organic, sustainable and recycle by 2025.
Inditex, which again owns Zara, already allows a consumer to drop off all their clothing, footwear, and accessory in their stores to manage waste. So to me, this will be a key strategies and major retailers will need to focus on. And then increase, focus will be on, products and including, end-of-life management.
It will, stating goals publicly and actually sticking and delivering on those goals. And then, taking on that ecosystem approach with everybody’s in the entire supply chain and making sure that, sustainability is a key strategy for the entire value chain.
And what are the greatest sustainability challenges abroad? So we’re thinking, North America centric, we know that the biggest challenges are, costs and supply. But in terms of what’s going on abroad, are there any different challenges in terms of, conversions?
The biggest challenge that I’ve experienced living abroad isn’t in the desire of the consumer for a more sustainable product or environment, which they’re shopping. It’s rather in the local government approach to how energy is provided, how waste channels are taken care of. And so in that, it makes it very difficult, even a retailer as large as ours, to have enough scale to really do things like, recycling or waste reduction without the support of the local government.
And so, that was certainly the biggest barrier that we had in understanding that. Things like water, we can take care of that ourselves, but really waste aversion, is a key and energy use is a key that you really need more governmental support on the local level. And certainly, we have government affairs working to start that conversation and lead in that category.
And I will concur with, what John just said. Having worked on multiple continents with retailers, the infrastructure to actually support sustainability is not the same. And so adjusting and being able to work with that infrastructure to actually maintain a sustainable level can be challenging, especially in emerging markets.
I just think the consumer will drive this message, especially to the younger consumer, exactly what, John just said. The newer generation, this is a key area of focus and brands will need to respond. And I do think it also adds value and allows the retailer to optimize their operation by leveraging some of these sustainable strategies.
So I see it as a win-win for both, the consumer, for the environment and also for the companies and the retailers in terms of, getting to a sustainable level that benefits the environment.
Well, the young consumer is very clear to the world that their ideals are changing faster than the world is around them. And their ideal wants to make it a better place while our behaviors and our consumption are putting challenges on global warming, food supply, food safety. And so I believe that, they will be part of the solution.
Population shows that it’s growing, so I think that this changing consumer is really going to demand all of us to dig deep and to change the world for the better and use our scale for good. And we have a tremendous opportunity to do that with these great brands, and I believe we’ve built trust and loyalty.
But we’re excited to take it further with the demands of that changing consumer and hopefully even stay in front of it and get others to join our movement.
And one final comment from myself. Retail will continue to grow, it’s expected to be at 23 trillion global market by 2022. To me it will, consumerism will thrive as long as the consumers are buying into consumerism. And consumerism, sustainability will play a big role in terms of, how that evolves.
So that to me, need to be addressed to actually keep retail growing and it needs to be a key part of the mix, success means going forward.
That’s awesome guys. And I have to say, as a millennial myself, I am currently as we speak, holding a 16 ounce heat thermos full of coffee that has had thousands of cups of coffee in it and paid for itself many times over with the little 10, 20 cent discounts that I get at the store, over the past three years since I’ve had this.
And boy do I see very little market penetration with these, especially with millennials. I do not see many people carrying around, daily coffee thermoses anywhere I go, to the point where I’m usually, akin to the person in the store that has one. We kind of look at each other and go, “Yeah, this is a good idea.” It’s funny how little I see that.
Well, Justin, thanks for walking the walk. And I think, whether it’s the younger generation or my generation asking for the world to change, we’ve all got to look in the mirror and answer that question, “Are we willing to change ourselves?” Because, we all have to make a change to make the world and the future of the world a better place.
And I applaud you for walking the walk. And I’d like to see more penetration because all of the people protesting that are using single use plastics, shame on them. They should find a way that that’s quite easy and convenience as well to walk the walk and so, I applaud that.
Yeah, I’ve always said to myself, you guys got to buy thermos or hydro flask and just make it really cool. I don’t know, because I just don’t see it that much but, stuff I think about on my morning walks.
We’re diving pretty deep into that one, and how we can make a difference there. You’ll start to see some things showing up that are game changing.
Well, I want to thank you guys so much for coming on the show. Tony and John, your insights have been incredible and we really thank you for sharing with us about these topics today.
Thank you very much, and I really appreciate the invitation and enjoyed the discussion and I learned more about Starbucks, which is a plus.
Thank you guys, I also learned quite a lot through the conversation and I’m happy to have been a part of it, thank you.
Great guys, and I hope you’ll join us again soon on, the Retail Rundown. And to everybody out there listening, see you next week.